Second-order cybernetics! In systemic management thinking?

Purpose - The following contribution tries to answer the question of whether the management theory's interpretation of cybernetics has something to do with second-order cybernetics, or in other words: what the impact of von Foerster's ideas so far on the German speaking management theory is.Design methodology approach - Different methodological programs in business administration and management theory will be summarized to become aware of the fundamental difference between Foerster's ideas and their interpretation through the systemic approach in management theory.Findings - In the beginning of the 1970s and all through the 1980s systemic thinking became what some management thinkers wanted to be called a "new paradigm" that ever since has attracted numerous researchers and practitioners, especially in the German speaking regions. So it seemed only natural that, together with systems theory, cybernetics, too, was introduced to the management discipline. Can you seriously have cybernetics without second-order cybernetics? Of course you can. The question here is: how far did German speaking systemic management thinking dare to go in incorporating cybernetics into the theory of management of social systems?Originality value - We will clearly see what Heinz von Foerster was pointing at when he talked about management being an autological concept where the manager has to take his being part of the system seriously. When making obvious different conceptual versions of cybernetics and demonstrating their corresponding attempts in transferring cybernetic thinking into the domain of social systems we might get an insight into new directions for researchers in management.